Talk:Democratic Republic of the Congo

East Congo

The terms East Congo and West Congo could help alleviate the confusion between the naming of the two Congos. I consistently have to do double-takes when taking about these two countries and since other countries like North Korea and South Korea have cardinal classifications instead of referring to them as the Democratic People's Republic of Korea and the Republic of Korea, wouldn't it make sense to do the same with the Congos? East Congo has a nice ring to it, no? Wkpdsrnm2023 (talk) 01:11, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

You're welcome to launch a campaign--outside of Wikipedia--to get the two Congos commonly referred to by those names. If you succeed, and the uses become widespread, Wikipedia will likely follow suit. But not before. (Anyway, I personally am glad that the Democratic Republic changed its name back to Congo; now that it's no longer called Zaire, I can say I've visited every country in the world that begins with Z.) Uporządnicki (talk) 12:46, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

Congo and West Congo

Perhaps a better solution would be like Sudan: the clearly larger country in Sudan's geographical area is Sudan (officially the Republic of Sudan) and the smaller South Sudan (officially the Republic of South Sudan). Of course, something similar should be agreed between the Democratic Republic of the Congo and the Republic of the Congo, i.e. the DT of the Congo would become Congo (officially the State of Congo, Federal Republic of Congo or Federation of Congo, without "the" and no longer a communist-style "democratic republic") and the Republic of the Congo would become West Congo (officially the Republic of West Congo, without "the").

Finally: the Congo's geographical area also includes the former Portuguese and current Angolan Congo, Cabinda Province.

--2001:999:680:4AD2:7D1B:676F:490E:6C76 (talk) 05:01, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Proposal to Use ‘DR Congo’ Instead of ‘Democratic Republic of the Congo’

I would like to suggest simplifying the use of the name ‘Democratic Republic of the Congo’ to ‘DR Congo’ in contexts where the distinction between DR Congo and Congo (Republic of the Congo) is already clear. ‘DR Congo’ is widely recognized as the common and official name for the Democratic Republic of the Congo, with the ISO country code CD. This abbreviation is well established both in international organizations and popular usage.

In major global events such as the FIFA World Cup, Africa Cup of Nations, and the Olympics, the Democratic Republic of the Congo is referred to as ‘DR Congo’ to distinguish it from its neighbor, ‘Congo’ (Republic of the Congo, CG). This common distinction is also employed by international bodies like the United Nations and African Union, as well as in global media, where ‘DR Congo’ and ‘Congo’ are used interchangeably with their full names without confusion.

Using ‘DR Congo’ in most instances reflects global practices for simplifying country names. For example, the ‘French Republic’ is commonly referred to as ‘France,’ and the ‘Republic of Niger’ is just ‘Niger.’ Similarly, the ‘United States of America’ is referred to as ‘United States’ or ‘USA,’ and the ‘United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland’ is simply ‘United Kingdom’ or ‘UK.’ These shortened names are universally understood and accepted, just as ‘DR Congo’ is for the Democratic Republic of the Congo.

Constantly using ‘Democratic Republic of the Congo’ in full adds unnecessary formality and can disrupt readability, especially since the shorter ‘DR Congo’ is widely accepted. The distinction between ‘Congo’ (Republic of the Congo) and ‘DR Congo’ (Democratic Republic of the Congo) is clear to most readers, and simplifying the name would make the text easier to follow without losing clarity.

I propose updating the language on this page to use ‘DR Congo’ in appropriate contexts, following the example of how other countries use shorter forms of their names. This would align the page with common international practices and enhance readability.

Looking forward to feedback from the community. Yufula (talk) 15:46, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Proposal to Clarify ‘Congo’ Usage and Primary Reference

I would like to open a discussion on simplifying and clarifying the use of ‘Congo’ on this page by primarily associating it with the Republic of the Congo, rather than the Democratic Republic of the Congo. This approach aims to reduce ambiguity and align with official naming conventions.

Key Points to Support This Proposal:

1. Official Naming Conventions:

In international standards, when two countries have similar names, the shorter, unmodified name generally refers to the country with the shorter official name. Therefore, ‘Congo’ should refer to the Republic of the Congo, while the Democratic Republic of the Congo is referred to by its full official name or its standard abbreviation ‘DR Congo’ or ‘DRC’.

2. International Standards and ISO Codes: • The Republic of the Congo has the ISO country code CG and is officially recognized as ‘Congo’.

• The Democratic Republic of the Congo uses the ISO code CD and is officially recognized as ‘DR Congo’ or ‘DRC’ to avoid confusion with its neighbor.

3. Usage in International Contexts:

In international organizations, official documents, and events such as United Nations proceedings or global sports competitions, the Republic of the Congo is referred to as ‘Congo’, while the Democratic Republic of the Congo is referred to as ‘DR Congo’ or ‘DRC’.

This practice helps maintain clarity and consistency in international communications.

4. Avoiding Misinterpretation:

Using ‘Congo’ interchangeably for both countries can lead to ambiguity. By clearly associating ‘Congo’ with the Republic of the Congo and using ‘DR Congo’ for the Democratic Republic of the Congo, we ensure consistency and reduce the potential for confusion.

5. Adherence to Wikipedia Policies:

Wikipedia edits should be based on verifiable facts and reliable sources, not personal opinions. This ensures that articles remain neutral and unbiased, adhering to Wikipedia’s core content policies of Neutral Point of View (NPOV), Verifiability, and No Original Research. By following these guidelines, we maintain the integrity and reliability of the information presented.

Proposed Update:

We should adjust references to ensure that ‘Congo’ primarily refers to the Republic of the Congo. For the Democratic Republic of the Congo, we can acknowledge that it is sometimes informally referred to as ‘Congo’, but official references should use ‘DR Congo’ or ‘DRC’. Here’s an example of how the introduction could be revised:

DR Congo, Officially the Democratic Republic of the Congo (French: République démocratique du Congo), also known as the DRC or Congo-Kinshasa and sometimes informally referred to as Congo, is a country in Central Africa… Yufula (talk) 14:05, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

I have no issues with referring to the country as the DRC throughout the article, but I oppose changing the introduction. MOS:LEADSENTENCE states that the page title should be the subject of the first sentence. Note that this doesn’t mean shortened names can’t be used in the article. Some examples of articles using shortened names throughout the article include the United Arab Emirates, the Federated States of Micronesia, and the Federal Bureau of Investigation. All use the page title as the first subject, then proceed to use abbreviations from there on out. So DRC or DR Congo can be used throughout the article, it just can’t be the subject of the first sentence. For the record, I think DRC should be used instead of DR Congo, as it appears to be more commonly used.

Also, just a quick note relating to this: In the future, when you make a change to the status quo and get reverted, the onus is on you to initiate discussion, as you are the one making the change. In this case, since you already made a talk page post about it here, a ping to me would’ve sufficed. Best, Dantus21 (talk) 17:30, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Having not heard back from Yufula concerning this, I'll ask for a WP:THIRDOPINION. To restate my argument:

1. I oppose changing the lead sentence from The Democratic Republic of the Congo, also known as DR Congo… to DR Congo, officially the Democratic Republic of the Congo…. The original lead sentence follows MOS:LEAD, while the proposed change does not.
2. I have no issues with referring to the modern state as "DRC" instead of "Congo". I have no idea how other users will take this, but I personally have no issues with it. (Not part of 3O request, but since the user addressed it a lot I’ll say something about it)

Dantus21 (talk) 19:46, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

@Dantus21:

1. I agree and think the article should not start with an acronym of dubious usage. The original lead sentence before Yufala's edits was clearer.
2. I'm fine with DRC being used throughout the body. Taking a look at United States it's clear that an acronym throughout can be readable if mixed in with the full name as per Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Abbreviations#Countries and multinational unions.

Dan Leonard (talk • contribs) 07:44, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Congo and West Congo

Perhaps a better solution would be like Sudan: the clearly larger country in Sudan's geographical area is Sudan (officially the Republic of Sudan) and the smaller South Sudan (officially the Republic of South Sudan). Of course, something similar should be agreed between the Democratic Republic of the Congo and the Republic of the Congo, i.e. the DT of the Congo would become Congo (officially the State of Congo, Federal Republic of Congo or Federation of Congo, without "the" and no longer a communist-style "democratic republic") and the Republic of the Congo would become West Congo (officially the Republic of West Congo, without "the").

Finally: the Congo's geographical area also includes the former Portuguese and current Angolan Congo, Cabinda Province.

--2001:999:680:4AD2:7D1B:676F:490E:6C76 (talk) 05:01, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Sure, it would be nice if the countries disambiguated their own names, but Wikipedia is not in charge of country names and cannot decide to start calling one of them "West Congo" to make article titles clearer. Dan Leonard (talk • contribs) 22:09, 3 December 2024 (UTC)