Talk:Flying fox (cablecar)

This stub was created after some discussion on the Village Pump. I'm not entirely happy with the name structure, probably megabat is the most common meaning of this term in which case it could be argued that the disambiguation page should be here, but when starting the project I didn't know any other name for the device. Foxtail has now been suggested as a possibility. However that would also need disambiguation to distinguish it from the ornamental device known as a foxtail, flown from the tip of an automobile radio aerial and popular in the 1950s and 1960s. Andrewa 20:58, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Er, that's not quite right... the children's toy is not a cablecar but rather a ball with a rope attached, allowing it to be thrown like a sling.

Good point about foxtail being a radio antenna ornament, too, and thanks for the disambig work. • Benc • 21:05, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Fascinating! I've removed the error! So, in American English, what does flying fox mean? The meaning I have stubbed here is Australian English of course. Andrewa 21:16, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Ah! That was stupid of me to assume User:Dramatic (New Zealander, according to the user page) meant the ball-and-rope toy; I should've asked for clarification. I don't think "flying fox" refers to the ball-and-rope toy in any English dialect (though I have been known to be wrong from time to time ;-)).

Anyway, to answer your question, most Americans would know "flying fox" as the the megabat, if anything. • Benc • 21:46, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Ah²! I suddenly remembered that we have such a thing on this side of the globe, which we call a zip-line. We already have an article for it, so I'm going to do a merge/redirect. (After verifying that a flying fox is truly a zip-line.) For the record, flying fox is a much better name. :-) • Benc • 01:17, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I'd recommend against the merge. Zip-line seems to be a device for transporting people only. Flying fox is a much more general term. I'll try to dig up some examples of the term from notable Australian literature.

I'm also a little unhappy with the current wikilink to aerial tramway to avoid the redirect at cablecar. I think we're taking consolidation a bit far already. There's room for several articles IMO. Andrewa 03:40, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Sounds good to me, though I'm sure zip-lines have been used to transport goods and mail, too. Zip-lines are pretty much always gravity-powered, though, so that may serve to distinguish them from flying foxes. (In any case, I'm glad I waited before the nixed merge.) Should we delete the flying fox disambig so flying fox (cablecar) can be moved back? No need for a disambig when there are only two usages. • Benc • 20:21, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I adjusted the Cable car wiki link to go to Cable car (disambiguation) (which really redirects to Cable car but implies that I looked and confirmed that it was a disambiguation entry). a zip line or flying fox is not an aerial tramway as that would require two cables one to ride on the other as power. I my opinion after just fixing a hundred plus disambiguation links related to cable cars, the zip line and the flying fox (as a pair) represent a transportation not covered by Aerial tramway, Gondola lift, Ropeway conveyor, or Aerial lift but does closely relate to the either the Gondola lift or Ropeway conveyor. Jeepday 03:37, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Update on merger proposal

I hadn't heard of zip-line until it came up in a news article today, which led me to this page via the Zip-line article. There's discussion there about a merger too, which ends up deciding in favour, but obviously never done. I think that the main case for a merger is that they are so similar and there is already a section in Zip-line about the Flying fox, which will inevitably lead to duplication and/or diverging information about the same thing. Best to get consensus but it's not as if this is a major article and I think it can be safely accommodated in the Zip-line one, along with appropriate redirects and additional info and citations copied over and credited. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 07:17, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

As per previous discussion, now merged with zip-line. See Talk:Zip-line for further discussion. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 06:17, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

Photo of flying fox/zip-line in Ladakh

I googled this one, as the article states that flying fox is an Australian/NZ term, and found several references to zip-lines in Ladakh. In my experience in Australia (as a migrant), I've only heard of flying fox being used in the context of adventure playground installations, and think that zip-line is more appropriate for working uses. I would remove or transfer the photo to the Zip-line article. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 07:26, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

I have never heard the term "zip-line" before either in Canada (my home country) or Australia (where I have lived most of my life). Here's wishing us all a Happy and Peaceful New Year! John Hill (talk) 07:58, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

Hi John and thanks for the wishes - same to you. Wikipedia should aim to use the broadest terms, and as there are undeniably more Americans than Australasians, this is one point; but more importantly is my second point above about the application of the term flying fox. In Australia, both in my experience and what I can find online, the only uses are for adventure playgrounds, not practical ones. And lastly, if you google Ladakh and flying fox, the only hits are your photo and another Australian source, but if you search on Ladakh and zip-line, you will see more of the same kind of application. Hence my point about using your photo for the Zip-line article and not this one. Cheers. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 09:53, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

Hi again - and thanks for returning the good wishes for the New Year. I have been thinking quite a bit about the use of the term "flying fox". I agree with your argument that the term is probably less well-known than zip-line as it seems to be an "Australianism". As such, I would agree with this article being combined with the one on "zip-line" (so long as searches for "flying fox" will show a link to the new article).

However, I kept wondering about your comment that "flying fox" in this sense is mainly used "for adventure playgrounds and the like." This did not agree with my own experience as I first ran into the term being used in mining contexts in Central Australia. So, to clarify the matter, I have searched three major dictionaries. I couldn't find any reference at all to the term in the Oxford English Dictionary, however, the Webster's Third International Dictionary (the largest American dictionary) gives:

"Flying fox. n. 1 : Fruit bat. 2. Austral. : a carrier (as for mining material or produce) operating on a cable over a gorge or other obstacle", while the Macquarie Dictionary (which bills itself as: "The most up-to-date Australian dictionary and thesaurus available") gives:

"flying fox /ˈflaɪɪŋ fɒks/ (say 'fluying foks)

noun 1.  any of various large bats of the suborder Megachiroptera, especially of the genus Pteropus, of Australia, tropical Asia and Africa, having a fox-like head and feeding on fruit and blossom, as the grey-headed flying fox.

2.  a cable-operated carrier over watercourses or difficult terrain; zip-line.

3.  a small-scale version of such a carrier, used as children's playground equipment; zip-line."

Cheers, John Hill (talk) 21:52, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

Ah, thanks for that, John Hill. That's interesting that you'd heard the term in the mining context - I'd only heard it in connection with kids' activities (probably reflective of my life with young children at the time!), a quick Google only brought me playground types, and I'd clean forgotten about looking in hardcopy dictionary sources. I don't have a subscription to the Macquarie, but looked in my 1983 Oxford Shorter (only mention of the bat) and my 1997 Macquarie (3rd rev. ed.), which only gives 1. same as yours, and 2. a cable-operated carrier over watercourses or difficult terrain. No mention of zip-line or children's playground equipment. I'll put it on my list of things to do, to merge these articles and supply appropriate citations, redirections, etc. (But feel free to tackle it yourself if you get there first!) Laterthanyouthink (talk) 00:42, 31 December 2018 (UTC)