Talk:Gaeltacht

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Category: Gaeltacht places

I have started a new category which will include all places in the Gaeltacht. This is Category:Gaeltacht places. As part of this process I have started new article on Dunquin and Ráth Cairn.

Map

The map shown in the article is extremely inaccurate. Most Gaeltacht areas are shown as being much smaller than they actually are and Clear Island in Co. Cork and Ring in Waterford have been completely omitted.

Alan, Dublin

Ok, then I'll remove the map for now. Do you have any idea where we can get a better one? --Khoikhoi 05:54, 28 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

We need to be very careful not to include the map on Údarás na Gaeltachta's website which is as inaccurate as that first put up in the Wikipedia article and subsequently removed. I e-mailed ÚnaG about their inaccurate map but received no reply. Reg Hindley used an official map in his book Death of the Irish Language and if anyone had a copy of it, it could be scanned in. The last changes to Gaeltacht boundaries were made in 1974 when Clochán-Bréanann and part of West Muskerry previously in the Galltacht were included in the Gaeltacht.

Alan, Dublin

Towns and Villages

Might a List of places in the Gaeltacht or similar be better to the recent addition of towns and villages? Djegan 20:18, 4 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ráth Cairn

Are we sure the English spelling is "Rathcarne", the most recent ordance survey map uses "Rathcarran", neither are particularily popular on an internet search but getting it right is not bad either (before creating a redirect)? Djegan 17:26, 18 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, they both seem to be in use, but the Irish name Ráth Cairn (which also has a variant Ráth Chairn) seems to be most common, even on websites written in English. The article is already at Ráth Cairn, so I'll just set redirects from all three of Rathcarne, Rathcarran, and Ráth Chairn. —An gr 18:10, 18 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! I'm the one who made the list of Gaeltacht-places and I thought about using Ráth Cairn in the first place, and would have done if I knew there was already an article under that name. JdeJ 19:11, 18 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't know either until I googled for "Ráth Cairn" and found ga:Ráth Cairn that way, and when I went there, I saw it was linked to Ráth Cairn here at en. —An gr 20:14, 18 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Most Gaeltacht areas do not actually have translations into English. The majority are in Gaelic only; controversy over using English words has been cast in the media - please research An Daingeán - and their arguement against 'Dingle'.

Canadian Gaeltacht?

Is there some people actually living in this Gaeltacht? The nearest place, according to the article, is a "small hamlet" that according to its article "has only a few commercial business in operation" and that fact is "largely due to its low population." Is there really an Irish speaking community there or not? JdeJ 06:16, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think there are people living in this Gaeltacht, but rather the hope is that one day there will be. It is currently just used to run Irish immersion courses and the like, but they are planning to build a community around it and eventually have a proper Irish language village. It has been approved funding by the Irish government though I think, and may have received Gaeltacht status.--Alanmryan100 (talk) 19:57, 8 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The proper term would be a Canadian Gàidhealtachd, as is the case in the province of Nova Scotia where a Scottish colony settled in the 1850's, and they still speak Scottish Gaelic over there, unless you're talking about an Irish-language colony somewhere else in Canada. Il Studioso 07:20, 22 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No I'm afraid the proper term is Gaeltacht and not Gàidhealtachd. Gàidhealtachd is reserved for areas with a Scottish Gaelic speaking population. The Gaeltacht in Tamworth, Ontario is an Irish Gaelic speaking area (although no-one lives there) that has received official status from Minister Ó Cuív. --MacTire02 (talk) 16:19, 22 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Antrim Gaeltacht

Under new Northern Irish rule, the Shaw's Road area of Belfast has been marked a Gaeltacht area. Every time I add it, someone keeps removing it from the page. This is ridiculous! Anyone heard of Belfast's Gaeltacht Quarter? If you havn't, please research it. It's disgraceful that people take things from pages without knowing anything of the topic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.160.241.186 (talk) 01:34, 11 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If it gets removed, it's because you haven't sourced the statement. People are naturally suspicious of anything being called a "Gaeltacht" outside the Republic of Ireland, because the strict sense of the word refers to a creation of the government of the Republic. When places in Northern Ireland and Canada get called "Gaeltachtaí", we want to know what exactly is meant by that, and to see good, published sources backing up the claim. —An gr 06:11, 11 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I just found these links and thought they were interesting: [1] [2] [3]. Seems there are a bunch of "new" Gaeltachtaí being planned.... perhaps this should be mentioned here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sulmac (talk • contribs) 18:52, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I definitely think those links should be added. They are relevant I feel, and perhaps they, the Antrim/Belfast Gaeltacht and the one in Canada could be put together in a list - showing future or newly approved Gaeltacht areas.--Alanmryan100 (talk) 19:57, 8 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Shaw's Road area is not a Gaeltacht area. The officially recognised "Gaeltacht Quarter" in Belfast does NOT include anywhere beyond the jurisdiction of Belfast City Council. (Legally speaking the Shaw's Road area lies within the boundaries of Lisburn City Council.) The official quarter extends from the city centre stoping more than a mile from the Shaw's road vicinity. Demographically speaking the mojority of people in the Shaw's Road area cannot speak Irish, and not all those who can, do. Whilst it would be true to say that there is a strong vibrant Irish language community in the Shaw's Road area, and indeed throughout the Belfast region, the is nowhere which has an Irish-speaking majority. Gaeltacht Quarter Map The Gaeltacht Quarter was established because of the strong economic and cultural impact that the Irish language has had on the Falls Road, in the west of the city, in recent decades - not on a liguistic basis. There was no language survey on local households and it is documented on the census that the language is not the doninant language of the Falls Road - most locals don't even understand it. The quarter was established in an effort to atract more inward investment into a district in Belfast which has historially been economically disadvantaged. [www.nicensus2001.gov.uk/ NISRA] The UK does not have any linguistically defined geographical areas. And, it is not within the remit of the BBC to designate any area of the UK as a Gaeltacht. The term "Gaeltacht" is incorrectly used in many cases, as a cultural motif - this being one of them. D.de.loinsigh (talk) 23:509, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Terminology

As this is the English language Wikipedia it should use English terminology. Irish language and Gaelic language are acceptable terms in English, although I would prefer the former. PatGallacher (talk) 14:46, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

ludicrous POV sentence

"The aim was to redress a centuries old imbalance, where the Irish farmers were forcibly removed from this land by the English under Oliver Cromwell, with the infamous edict to ‘Hell or Connacht’. When the Irish farmers returned to the land in Meath, they brought with them their native language and culture, which today is greatly celebrated in the small Gaeltacht of Baile Ghib and Rath Cairn, 70 km from Dublin city."

Who in the Meath Gaeltacht can say that a particular ancestor came from where he lives today? No compensation was paid in the 1650s, while the occupiers were paid to leave by the state in the 1930s to set up this Gaeltacht, so it didn't redress any imbalance. Application of reality, please.86.42.221.37 (talk) 17:15, 3 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Gaeltacht placenames

Should placenames in the Gaeltacht not be in their Irish language version as that is the official version? I know we have a common view policy on wikipedia, but if we were to rigidly implement that policy then all articles on all placenames should be in their common English language version. i.e. Kolkata should be re-named Calcutta - the common English language name. Likewise Mumbai - Bombay. I don't understand why these commonname placenames have been superseded by their official Indian names, while Irish Gaeltacht placenames have to bow to their common English name despite the fact that it's their Irish name that has official status. The government here only uses the Irish language version, as does RTÉ, a sizeable portion of the National Media, new OS maps since the Official Languages Acts, and in the future it will be a requirement to have all maps show the official name only or as a priority name (i.e. with the English name in italics). To have one policy for Indian placenames and another for Irish Gaeltacht placenames is a bit hypocritical I feel. --MacTire02 (talk) 13:15, 14 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There is much dispute over those changes on a local level. Lets not move them around just because of "officaldom". Djegan (talk) 13:57, 14 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This isn't the place to discuss the issue anyway. The right place to discuss it is WP:MOSIR, but the consensus that the English names of places in the Gaeltacht are to be used, provided the English names are the most commonly used names in English, is unlikely to change any time soon. —An gr 14:25, 15 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Have changed all Irish only place names to English versions as used by the article names for those places, since this is English Wikipedia. After all, even Irish speaking Gaeltacht dwellers will use English language equivalents when speaking in English. If there is any argument about this, the best place is to argue about the individual place name article names on those talk pages, not simply change the names back to Irish on this page. 86.139.114.221 (talk) 07:54, 10 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

What problems ...

You know, I don't care if this ends up getting kicked off of Wikipedia, but based on this info, I just have to conclude that, in a basic phrase, England and its English language have caused nothing but problems to many cultures and languages, especially the Celtic languages in particular. If you study the three Gaeltacht maps, you can see that, from 1926 to 2007, the "English Monster" has pretty much gotten the Irish language rounded up with nowhere to escape to, and the various pockets of Gaeltacht resemble peninsulas, showing how the Irish language can't escape, unless something's done about this in Dublin. With the situation of the language in Northern Ireland, I'm particularly not surprised how it's not supported. What could you possibly expect from England? By the way, when you refer to Great Britain, I hope you're talkin' about England, right? Il Studioso 07:42, 22 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This talk page is for discussing improvements to the article Gaeltacht, not for getting opinions off your chest. The term "Great Britain" doesn't even occur in the article, but when it is used, it refers correctly to England, Scotland, and Wales together, not just England. —An gr 18:47, 22 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Belfast Gaeltacht

Bóthar Seoighe (also Gaeltacht Seoighe; English: Shaw's Road or Shaw's Gaeltacht) is a small Gaeltacht (Irish-speaking area) in Belfast, County Antrim, Northern Ireland. The Shaw's Road Gaeltacht was founded in the mid 1960s when a few families from Belfast built their houses in the area. More families joined the original settlers in the 1960s. In all, over 300 people live in the Shaw's Road Gaeltacht. In 1972 the Shaw's Road received official recognition as a Gaeltacht following a campaign. A committee was started in 1973. As a result, the Shaw's Road has grown into a community with a primary school (and have from the work of it's people openeda secondary school in 1991 on the Falls Road), the first primary Irish Language primary school in the north of Ireland, a community hall and other historical facilities. Shaw's Gaeltacht is popular for children and adults from Antrim learning Irish. Irish language courses are run for all in the GAA Club. Shaw's Gaeltahct has a strong culture of traditional music, dance and drama which continues to thrive today.

The area has been home to many musicians, dancers, teachers and political figures. People fond of the place were Belfast-born Gaelic speaker Albert Sharpe, who stared in Darby O'Gill and the Little People and Robbi McMillen, a young singer who was born and raised there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.79.29.3 (talk) 02:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The tiresome Derry/Londonderry saga

I've reverted this edit for the following reasons. I went over to WP:MOSIR and checked to see if proper names of companies, organisations and such are exempt from wiki's landmark Derry City/County Londonderry agreement. Examples include City of Derry Airport, Port of Londonderry, Derry City Council and Derry GAA. The response I got was that these are indeed exempt from this agreement and the name on wiki is exactly what it says on the tin. In this instance, the name of the project cited in the source is South Derry Gaelteacht. There is no mention of a South Londonderry Gaelteacht. If User:mabuska has any issues with that, please take it to the talk page at WP:MOSIR. --Eamonnca1 (talk) 23:56, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Will do. Though can you provide an actual source that states there is a specific project called "South Derry Galetacht"? It would appear to be more a Gaeltacht project that is being referred to as being in South Derry rather than its actual name. Even then the sub-section title as its geographic should state South Londonderry regardless of what the project is called.

Here ya go. Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style_(Ireland-related_articles)#Flouting_of_the_IMoS. Though you do know the biggest flaw in your arguement is that it isn't a project, the source says its a strategy, and also that its called An Bealach chun Tosaigh which means "The Way Forward". Mabuska ^(talk) 12:13, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

How about a compromise. The reference and any reference to it I can find online (though unusable because they are simply forum discussions) all mention it as the South Derry Gaeltacht. Seeing as how the other sub-headings within this section simply refer to the geographical location, how about we keep the name as South Derry Gaeltacht within the paragraph as that is how it's known, but use South Londonderry as the sub-heading as that is its geographical location, which would therefore adhere to the MOS? --MacTire02 (talk) 12:31, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Problem with that is there is no official project, association, region, or organisation called "South Derry Gaeltacht". It is a geographic descriptor pure and simple and nothing else. On that grounds IMoS applies. Its not like "Port of Londonderry" or "Derry City Council".

If you wanted to describe the geographic location of a Gaeltacht in Timbuktu you'd say the Timbuktu Gaeltacht, but it doesn't mean that thats its name, its just a geographic descriptor. Even the groups involved don't mention Derry or Londonderry in their name. I was sorely tempted to drive a few miles from mine to Carntogher and to ask them personally but that'd be original research.

Unless theres evidence that this Gaeltacht which has no official status whatsoever, is actually designated as the "South Derry Gaeltacht" it should be reworded or IMoS applied. A rewording would be like; a Gaeltacht, based around Slaghtneill and Carntogher, near Maghera, in southern County Londonderry

It would make more sense to title the sub-section "County Londonderry" as as "South Derry/Londonderry" along two sub-sections that the names of cities and one thats a continent would be a little confusing for readers. Maybe just stating County Londonderry as the title might be better or even just Maghera as the Gaeltacht is based near it? Mabuska ^(talk) 15:40, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Mabuska ^(talk) 15:40, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Seems fair enough as it's covering the south of the county not the city which means that Londonderry should be used. The C of E. God Save The Queen! (talk) 16:16, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Where does it say anywhere that "South Derry" shall be called "South Londonderry"? The basic problem is that there is not an area even unofficially called "South Londonderry", whereas "South Derry" it its only name. O Fenian (talk) 22:58, 2 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The IMOS makes it clear that Derry should be used when speaking about the city and Londonderry about the county. This gaeltacht will be in the south of the county, not the city. As for usage: see here for official use, here or here for unofficial use. Valenciano (talk) 11:02, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

And do you have any evidence that the South Derry being referred to in any way corresponds to electoral boundaries? Oh no you do not, so less of the meaningless waffle. O Fenian (talk) 11:10, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You said "there is not an area even unofficially called "South Londonderry." Check the two links above which refer to South Londonderry, so your comments besides being pure POV are just plain wrong. IMOS is clear that we need to use Derry for the city and Londonderry for the county, exceptions to that would be official names. No one's interested in your unsourced personal POV so unless you can provide sources that the gaeltacht in question actually exists or that it will cover the south of Derry city you're just babbling and wasting people's time. Valenciano (talk) 17:03, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Do you plan to answer the question? Before you do, you might also want to brush up on past and present tense. Then you might also want to find a source that says "South Londonderry" is an alternate name for "South Derry". Or is it only you that makes demands round here? Funny how you also moan about wasting time, yet took the time to provide those three links while ignoring that the first result on Google returns this. So exactly who is wasting the time of who here? O Fenian (talk) 17:21, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Past/present tense? Eh? What are you on about? Let's answer your other questions then. You appear to be arguing that the South Derry area (the area not the Gaeltacht) is never called South Londonderry. I've given you two links above which show that South Londonderry is an alternate name used unofficially. The point about the electoral constituency shows that it was also an official name used at one point for the area which included Magherafelt, Maghera etc. It's clear from the link that the Gaeltacht in question hasn't been set up yet and as yet doesn't have an official name. Lacking that, IMOS applies. Is it in the city or the county? It's in the county. Right, then we use Londonderry. Not that hard is it? Valenciano (talk) 18:02, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The area is called both South Derry and South Londonderry by people O Fenian. South Derry if anything is an alternative for South Londonderry seeing as the county has always been Londonderry. You can guess who uses what, though South Derry is a common shorthand in the unionist community too, but at present neither name has any official status, and the only one that did was South Londonderry, but then again that is the name of the county and this area is the southern portion of it. Thus your arguement O Fenian is seriously flawed. IMoS thus should be applied as we are dealing with a county not a unofficial shorthand name that depends largely of pov. Mabuska ^(talk) 20:43, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Other than two opposers, there is a broad consensus to apply the IMoS and use Londonderry going by the talk at the Ireland IMoS WikiProject, and in here. "South Derry Gaeltacht" is not an official name of anykind, so it doesn't fall into the exceptions such as "Port of Londonderry" etc. This i move to apply the IMoS as it should. Mabuska ^(talk) 20:52, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If they really want to include the "south" bit then put "South of Co. Londonderry". However I certainly agree that the IMOS should be applied here. I second your move. The C of E. God Save The Queen! (talk) 07:55, 4 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The more I have read up on the proposed Gaeltacht, the more it is obvious that the name "South Derry Gaeltacht" is indeed simply a loose term to describe the geographical location of the Gaeltacht, rather than anything official. I have also heard of the Gaeltacht in Meath described simply as the "Meath Gaeltacht" (in a similar vein to the way the proposed Gaeltacht in South Londonderry/Derry is named), despite the fact that the Gaeltacht in Meath is officially called the "Rath Cairn Gaeltacht". Therefore, without any official naming of the Gaeltacht we must adhere to the IMOS. I know this is a change of position previously held, but as I said, I have looked into it more. The IMoS has held for quite a while now, and I don't see how the renaming of the Gaeltacht in the article will change the content. --MacTire02 (talk) 09:21, 4 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It won't change the content of the article other than the terminology used. The Gaeltacht i doubt could ever recieve official status within Northern Ireland unless the Assembly declared it as such, and even then due to the fact it is located in a small area that doesn't even comprise much of South Londonderry, it'd be given a more localised Irish name such as "Carn Tóchair Gaeltacht", just as the "Meath Gaeltacht" is known as the "Rath Cairn Gaeltacht" in Irish. I'll go ahead and make the change BRD.

In fact we shouldn't really try to push South Londonderry as the name of the area, as that isn't even its proper name anymore, though is used informally. Maybe south Londonderry or southern County Londonderry would be better. Mabuska ^(talk) 15:05, 4 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Just as an aside - as far as I know, the Assembly has no real say in what or what is not considered a Gaeltacht, by which I mean if the Gaeltacht was established it would more than likely receive nether condemnation nor support from the Assembly. It would more than likely simply be viewed as a regional "peculiarity" if I may use that word, similar to the way the Tamworth Gaeltacht in Ontario is not "official" in that it is neither viewed positively nor negatively by the Ontario government. Yet Tamworth is considered an "official" Gaeltacht according to Údarás na Gaeltachta and the Department of the Gaeltacht in the Republic. All this is, of course, an aside to the question regarding the naming of the Gaeltacht, and the IMoS. --MacTire02 (talk) 16:45, 4 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As another aside, is it not strange to begin this section with "Minister Éamon Ó Cuív, TD", when Ó Cuív has never been a minister or a TD in NI? Scolaire (talk) 13:29, 5 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Good point. Also it does appear worded subversively. The "Ireland" wikilink pipe for RoI in the article lede is correct as its dealing with the state - but then the article goes on about Belfast and County Londonderry without making it clear that they aren't part of that state - so it appears the piped-link may be referring the island instead of the state. Casually describing a TD without placing where he's from in regards to County Londonderry could be assumed to be subversive. Slight rewording needs done to amend this. Mabuska ^(talk) 13:38, 5 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I simply put the NI "Gaeltachtai" into its own sub-section, and made it clear that the TD is from the Republic. Really simple changes to help avoid confusion. Mabuska ^(talk) 13:46, 5 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, but I don't think there's anything too subversive about mentioning that he was Minister for the Gaeltacht in the Republic. Presumably that's why he was there. Scolaire (talk) 14:41, 5 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Criticism

Shouldn't this article mention that there has been criticism of the Gaeltacht idea, including from people who support the Irish language?--MacRusgail (talk) 21:32, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

For an evenly balanced article their should be some form of criticism section - as long as its sourced reliably. Mabuska ^(talk) 21:55, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

So be bold and just add a criticism section with refs. I can't imagine how anyone would have a problem with such a section. ^Mac Tíre _Cowag 07:12, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Changes

I have tightened up a number of sections and have added references. I have added a section describing the parlous state of the language in the official Gaeltacht. Given that this threatens the very existence of the Gaeltacht, such a section is well overdue. Colin Ryan (talk) 12:19, 23 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

(Mis)Infobox

Infoboxes are designed to convey a summary of information, unfortunataly this one added inaccuarcies. The flag, emblem and national languages are those of the state. The Gaeltacht offical/sanctioned religion was set to catholic and demonym was Gaelic/Irish people. No, no and no. Murry1975 (talk) 11:27, 1 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Deletion of Clare island from Neo-Gaeltachtaí

I have taken Clare Island out of the section devoted to Neo-Gaeltachtaí, as there is no convincing evidence of any revival.

Colin Ryan (talk) 01:30, 29 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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County Londonderry

See Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Ireland-related_articles#Derry/Londonderry - "To avoid constant renaming of articles (and more), keep a neutral point of view, promote consistency in the encyclopedia, and avoid Stroke City-style terms perplexing to those unfamiliar with the dispute, a compromise solution was proposed and agreed in 2004 regarding the Derry/Londonderry name dispute, and has been generally accepted as a convention for both article titles and in-article references since then. Use Derry for the city and County Londonderry for the county in articles." I have therefore reverted the edits to the version as it stod before to-day - please discuss here before making any edits. Alekksandr (talk) 21:01, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

What seven counties?

The article states: Gaeltacht areas were recognised in seven of the state's 26 counties (nominally Donegal, Galway, Mayo, Kerry, and Waterford). That comes to five not seven by my reckoning. Can someone please correct this? John Campbell (talk) 23:04, 18 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Transfer of material

I have transferred much of the material in what used to "Gaeltachtaí" and is now "Revival and innovation" to Neo-Gaeltacht, where I consider it more properly belongs. I trimmed the bulk of "West Clare Gaeltacht Irish speaking area & North Munster Irish / Gaeilge na dTuathmhumhan," together with its unwieldy title: it is now simply "West Clare". Still work to be done.

Colin Ryan (talk) 13:36, 14 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]