Talk:Gulf Arabic

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Untitled

Mustafaa changes the official and legal name of the Persian Gulf to a fake and illigal thing "Gulf" (which Gulf???) and thinks it is OK?!!! What about ommiting all the names and call everything "Sea", "Land", "Lake" instead of using their names? Come on! What do you people have against things Persian? What is this?? --Mani1 20:20, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)

What do you have against things Arabian? How many speakers of Gulf Arabic do you think will call it Persian Gulf Arabic? The name this language is best known by is Gulf Arabic ([1][2][3][4][5]). Get used to it. - Mustafaa 00:35, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Yeah its true damn right I am with Mustafaa. I lived in gulf more than 4 years and no one call it persian Gulf. Semitic

Without the nationalist rhetoric, the name of this language is universally accepted as "Gulf Arabic". All linguistic literature in English calls it "Gulf Arabic". It doesn't matter what it is called in Persian, this is the ENGLISH Wikipedia and in English the language is universally known among linguists as "Gulf". ISO 639-3 uses "Gulf", Ethnologue uses "Gulf", all the grammars and dictionaries in English use "Gulf". Case closed. I will automatically undo all attempts to change this to "Persian Gulf Arabic". (Taivo (talk) 12:25, 9 March 2008 (UTC))[reply]

The Persian Wikipedia calls the language "Gulf Arabic" and not "Persian Gulf Arabic" so why should the English one be any different.أبو خالد إبن المهندس (talk) 11:20, 22 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It IS Gulf Arabic, and that’s what we call it in English. As for the gulf itself, it’s the Persian Gulf. Gulf Arabic language, the Persian Gulf, two different things. —Stephen (talk) 18:24, 22 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This article needs protection!

Somebody keeps vandalising this article. Its ironic as Gulf Arabic uses Persian words like "hast" and this could be of interest to Persian speakers. أبو خالد إبن المهندس (talk) 12:39, 30 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Improvement

Dear humans, I have made an attempt to improve this article and this is my first major edit - or my first edit ever (while being signed in). I might have made a few mistakes, so please let me know if I did! Thank you, enjoy and have a great night or day! -Konanen (talk) 02:01, 5 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Also, how about removing the Unreferenced and Stub template, please? -Konanen (talk) 16:12, 8 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

IPA pronunciation [ɑ] and [ɐ]

Whoever made the "improvements" that "Khalidji" were pronounced [χɐˈliːdʒi] or that "Lahdja al-Khalijiyya" were pronounced [ˈlɑhdʒɐ lχɐˈliːdʒijːɐ] clearly has no concept of how [ɑ] or [ɐ] sound like. It is ridiculous to assume that a backing of [æ~a] to [ɑ] would be triggered in the environment of palatal [l] and [h], or in turn, that palatal [l] would not be affected by [ɑ] to sound like [ɫ]. Same goes for [ɐ]. I changed these "corrections" back and unless some person can prove to me that [ɐ] belongs to the vowels of GA or [ɑ] is indeed in these words, I will not allow these changes to be made! Greetings, Konanen (talk) 16:17, 27 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Qaf pronounciation

Is the qaf letter pronounced q, g or both? The Spartan 003 (talk) 00:22, 25 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Rule on q to dʒ pronunciation

"/q/ (in Classical Arabic words), [ɡ], very rarely and optionally [d͡ʒ⁓ʒ] when followed by front vowels ([ɐ], [e], [ɪ] or [i]) or following a consonant preceded by a front vowel"

What's the source of this? I can think of a couple of examples that disprove this, like فريج fərɪ:d͡ʒ and مجبل mid͡ʒbil.

Having a main article for few countries

Hi, what does it mean to have an article for a specific dialect just few countries in Middle East and what does it mean to call it with that title?how about making separate articles for all dialects of Spanish countries and English countries including Australia and U.S.A?this is not professional thing for aN encyclopedia.Simsala111 (talk) 19:28, 29 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

See American English, Australian English, Mexican Spanish, Costa Rican Spanish, Peninsular Spanish, etc. High surv (talk) 09:18, 31 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Recent additions

I've added some content with examples pulled from Holes (1990), a source that does not use Arabic script in its discussion of Gulf Arabic. Despite my efforts to provide orthographic representation of these words, there are a few examples that are still missing them. Efforts to correct this are appreciated. — Æµ§œš¹ _{[lɛts b̥iː pʰəˈlaɪˀt]} 19:59, 7 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Aeusoes1: Regarding the bedouin and sedentary dialect types, there is a regular confusion between Gulf speakers' own identification of dialects and the linguistic naming norm set by Clive Holes. Holes uses "sedentary" to refer to older sedentary communities, mainly non-Sunni Omanis and Baharna, and "bedouin" to refer to tribal Sunnis, some of whom descend from bedouin tribes from centuries ago. Both of those groups are entirely sedentary, and have been sedentary for at least 3 centuries. There are no bedouins that speak so-called "bedouin-type" Gulf dialects. Meanwhile, dialects of remaining bedouins and recently sedentarized bedouins (i.e. last 3 generations) in the Gulf are not included as "Gulf dialects" in Holes' classification. Those dialects are similar to the dialects of Najd and most bedouins in Arabia. Many linguists refer to those dialects as bedouin^[1] ^[2] ^[3]^[4].

My point is that we should stay away from listing this classification as a matter-of-fact, or phrase it as something agreed upon, when it is a classification of one linguist. Those two dialect groups exist, yes, but they are not "typically" referred to by those names. High surv (talk) 08:43, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the sources, High surv. I will check them out. I've definitely seen that terminology used by other linguists studying Arabic, so this isn't just Holes. But either way, there's room for more discussion on dialectal variation within Gulf Arabic in the article. — Æµ§œš¹ _{[lɛts b̥iː pʰəˈlaɪˀt]} 20:25, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I do not disagree with the terminology; it just needs clarification. It makes sense when describing "Bedouin" Gulf dialects as examples of the larger bedouin dialect group, which includes other dialects of sedentary people with some bedouin ancestry, such as Hilalian dialects and Iraqi gilit dialects (compared to Iraqi qeltu dialects). But likewise it can be misleading to imply that Iraqis typically consider the standard Iraqi dialect (a gilit dialect) to be "bedouin".

A side note: the two large Gulf "sedentary" dialects each have their own articles Omani Arabic and Bahrani Arabic. High surv (talk) 17:40, 13 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Ingham, Bruce (1986). "Notes on the Dialect of the Āl Murra of Eastern and Southern Arabia". Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London. pp. 271–291.
^ https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/161528645.pdf. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)
^ Johnstone, T. M. (1961). "Some Characteristics of the Dōsiri Dialect of Arabic as Spoken in Kuwait". Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London. pp. 249–297.
^ Webster, Roger (1991). "Notes on the Dialect and Way of Life of the Āl Wahība Bedouin of Oman". Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London. pp. 473–485.

Shakib gaming

Shakib gaming 103.166.152.135 (talk) 04:54, 5 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Allophony

We have two sub-sections titled “Allophony”; this should ideally be fixed, and I will do so eventually, unless somebody else does the honours first.

However, I wanted to ask further about this sub-sub-section in the second allophony sub-section:

Front vowels

In the context of emphatic consonants, long /iː/ and /eː/ exhibit centralized vowel onglides and offglides. For example:

/tˤiːn/ طين ('mud') → [tˤᵊiːn].
/sˤeːf/ صيف ('summer') → [sˤᵊeːf] .
/tiħiːdˤ/ ('she menstruates') → [tɪħiːᵊdˤ].

Similarly, the normal realization of short /i/ is [ɪ] except in final position, where it is [i]; when adjacent to emphatic, uvular, or bilabial consonants, /i/ is centralized to [ɨ].

/binti/ ('my daughter') → [bɪnti].

/kiˈtaːb/ كتاب ('book') → [kəˈtaːb].

/ruːħi/ ('go! [f]') → [rʊːħi].

1) Would vowel on- and off-glides not automatically be part of the co-articulation caused by the pharyngealisation and preceding or subsequent front vowel production? I do not have access to the resource cited for that section, but I question whether a Praat spectrogramme would actually show a vowel on/off-glide in that position. It is good to note this as a phonological process, but I do not think this should be labelled as allophony, unless some speakers demonstrably do NOT exhibit this process of epenthesis.

2) Would some words not be better transcribed differently? I′ll demonstrate:

/tˤiːn/ طين ('mud') → [tˤ(ᵊ)ɨːn] / [tˤ(ᵊ)eːn] (instead of [tˤᵊiːn])

/tiħiːdˤ/ تحيض ('she menstruates') → [tɨˈħiː(ᵊ)ðˤ] (instead of [tɪħiːᵊdˤ])

/ɾuːħi/ روحي ('go! [f]') → [ˈɾˤɔːħi]

Konanen (talk) 17:20, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Ingham, Bruce (1986). "Notes on the Dialect of the Āl Murra of Eastern and Southern Arabia". Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London. pp. 271–291.

[2] ttps://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/161528645.pdf. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)

[3] Johnstone, T. M. (1961). "Some Characteristics of the Dōsiri Dialect of Arabic as Spoken in Kuwait". Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London. pp. 249–297.

[4] Webster, Roger (1991). "Notes on the Dialect and Way of Life of the Āl Wahība Bedouin of Oman". Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London. pp. 473–485.

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