Talk:Joan Beaufort, Queen of Scots

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by WikiProject Royalty and Nobility.

Middle Ages Low‑importance

	Middle Ages portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Middle Ages, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Middle Ages on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Middle AgesWikipedia:WikiProject Middle AgesTemplate:WikiProject Middle AgesMiddle Ages articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Women's History Low‑importance

	History portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women's History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Women's history and related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women's HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject Women's HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Women's HistoryWomen's History articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Scotland High‑importance

	Scotland portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Scotland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Scotland and Scotland-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ScotlandWikipedia:WikiProject ScotlandTemplate:WikiProject ScotlandScotland articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Scottish Royalty High‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Scottish Royalty (a child project of the Royalty and Nobility Work Group), an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Scottish Royalty on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you should visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.Scottish RoyaltyWikipedia:WikiProject Scottish RoyaltyTemplate:WikiProject Scottish RoyaltyScottish royalty articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the importance scale.

A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on July 15, 2020 and July 15, 2023.

Untitled

It has been proposed below that Joan Beaufort, Queen of Scotland be renamed and moved to Joan Beaufort.

as per Wiki guidlines for formal royal spouses Mowens35 20:27, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

But Joan Beaufort is a disambiguation page, because there is another one about whom we have an article. Adam Bishop 20:29, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Joan Beaufort was originally a page dealing with both; I split them up into the two articles, and kept the single page as a disambig - since it already sort of was. ("Queen of Scotland" was just a quick addendum to help me differentiate the two, since I couldn't figure out an obvious addition to the name).

I should probably add - I really don't know anything about either, I just ran across the article as was and fixed it. Hmm. Move Joan Beaufort to Joan Beaufort (disambiguation), and shift this article back there? But that'll probably cause some kind of conflict... Shimgray 21:47, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Why can't she be titled Queen-consort of Scotland, as someone else mentioned (below)? Whyhelloclarice (talk) 17:02, 30 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

keep it

Mowens35 likes to get rid of royal titles throughout wikipedia for whatever reasons. or does he propose changing Masako, Crown Princess of Japan to Masako of Japan as well? just ridiculous... voting to keep the current name. cheers.. Antares911 16:25, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Not moved --Henrygb 09:42, 22 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Move

This page should be either Joan of Scotland, or Joan de Beaufort. She was not the "Queen of Scotland", there has never been such a thing. She was the Queen-consort of Scots, as is and was common usage. Five days, and I'll move it to the latter suggestion. Get yer gurns in!Brendandh 02:57, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Regency

It need more about her regency. When was it ended, for example? --85.226.44.238 (talk) 18:52, 15 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Expansion on this interesting detail

Under 'Queen of Scotland' there is this sentence: "As queen, she often pleaded with the king for those who might be executed." It is unclear if she was begging on behalf of those who might be executed or was begging the king to execute certain people.

If anyone has access to the source for this, I think it would be a nice addition.

Whyhelloclarice (talk) 17:05, 30 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 6 June 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Though some evidence was provided to argue that the queen was the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for this name, the evidence was highly contested, resulting in a narrow consensus that there's no primary topic here. (closed by non-admin page mover) ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 16:28, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

– There are only two Joan Beauforts of note and this one is the primary topic. Celia Homeford (talk) 10:31, 6 June 2023 (UTC)— Relisting. —usernamekiran (talk) 10:20, 13 June 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 15:12, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Primary topic not proven. The Scottish consort's article is only a fraction of the Countess of Westmorland's. Walrasiad (talk) 20:14, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support - Clear WP:PTOPIC as demonstrated by ngrams [1] and pageviews [2]. estar8806 (talk) ★ 02:36, 10 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure how you came to that conclusion. But pageviews show the Countess of Westmorland consistently higher pageviews over time (usually double the number). That would make Westmorland the primary topic. Walrasiad (talk) 08:02, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Alas, I did misread the pageviews. But ngrams still support the Queen of Scots as primarytopic, maybe not as clear-cut as I originally said, but the ngrams are sufficient for my liking. estar8806 (talk) ★ 17:00, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Your ngrams are dependent on very precise rather long terms, far too long to be able to derive any conclusions. Figures like these are particular likely to be referred to by alternative names, like "Joan of Lancaster" or simply "Joan of Westmorland", or "Queen Joan of Scotland", etc. I don't think those ngrams are informative at all, and certainly nowhere near enough to declare any of them a primary topic. Particularly when Westmorland dominates the pageviews, I suspect Westmorland probably shows up more in books as well (under other names). There's just not enough here. Walrasiad (talk) 18:59, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Weak oppose: I don't think there's a clear PTOPIC here. The Queen of Scots gets around ~60% of the views since 2015, with that number staying pretty stable and being at around 61% for the past year. Meanwhile, wikinav shows that under 60% of the people visiting the disambiguation page are looking for the Queen of Scots over the past two months, with more users in April navigating to the Countess of Westmorland. I think a little stronger evidence is needed to show there's a PTOPIC here (the ngram isn't convincing for me either). Skarmory (talk • contribs) 11:12, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support first move. Clear PT. Support second but only because it's better than deleting it. Ideally we would never have had this two-way DAB, just hatnotes at the two articles each pointing to the other, which we should have now and none pointing to the DAB. But better to keep the DAB now as there may be incoming external links. Andrewa (talk) 11:15, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Biography has been notified of this discussion. - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 15:11, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Women's History has been notified of this discussion. - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 15:11, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Scotland has been notified of this discussion. - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 15:12, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. I think it's best to include redirects in the page views. (The redirect Joan Beaufort, Queen of Scotland in particular gets a good chunk of views.) It's close to even – a small lead for Joan Beaufort, Countess of Westmorland – so at least based on usage there is no clear primary topic. Adumbrativus (talk) 09:01, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.