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This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record.
The result of the debate was ambiguous.

Most of the "delete" voters clearly expressed an opinion that a new entity can not generally be encyclopedia-worthy the day of its launch (or worse, the day prior) and that more time should be allowed before the decision is made to include it. The "keep" voters were less consistent in their reasoning. By strict vote-count, I count 20 "deletes", 20 "keep as is" (though ten of them had to be discounted as either anonymous or so new that they were indistinguishable from sockpuppets) and 6 "merge". Since the "merge" votes count as a variant of "keep", the decision to delete fails to meet the necessary concensus even though there is a clear majority (20 to 16) in favor of deletion. There is, however, an overwhelming concensus (26 to 10) that this should not remain as an independent article. Accordingly, I am going to call this one as a "merge and redirect". Relevant content has been merged with Kevin Rose per the recommendations below. (If anyone thinks I missed an important detail, you can view it in the page history and can merge it yourself.)

This decision should be considered binding until there is clear and convincing evidence that Systm is independently encyclopedia-worthy. That is usually taken to mean that the entity has been around long enough and has had enough general impact on society that a verifiable article of greater than stub length can be written and that the topic is widely enough known that we can expect the necessary critical mass of knowledgable reader/editors to keep the article neutral. Rossami (talk) 02:23, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Systm

[edit]

A web videozine released tomorrow. Not encyclopedic. -- Longhair | Talk 11:09, 22 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: If you recreate it, I again edit it with another VfD nomination. Come back when you're in fact encyclopedic, not 3 days old. -- Longhair | Talk 13:41, 23 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Don't Delete The Systm... -- In the mid to late 90's The Screensavers on ZDTV/TechTV became a phenomenon that has spun-off MANY web-based shows with The Systm being one. If you remove The Systm you must also remove TWiT and The Broken. Don't remove any of these !!
  • Keep -- A videozine released tomorrow... so just wait for tomorrow. Surely you can wait ::calculates time:: 7 hours to see if it's worth keeping. --TexasDex 20:29, May 23, 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. --Mrmiscellanious 22:15, 23 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep -- No point deleting it, it is released in a few hours. Why delete it when The Broken and This Week in Tech are allowed? It is already famous and many people know about it. 202.173.180.85 23:13, 23 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. The anons (socks?) want to keep it. That's a good reason for deleting it. — P Ingerson (talk) 23:19, 23 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I am not involved with the creation of Systm, I am a regular Wikipedia user but can't get into my account (Peter McGinley) because the retrieve password feature is not e-mailing me a new password. If I did have access to my account, I would be logged in on it. 202.173.180.85 00:08, 24 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - this show is looking to be quite popular. We have an article for Friends, don't we? Popular TV shows are worthy of an article. If this thing flops, we can consider removing it, but espically in 4 hours, there'll be a lot to say about systm. --Oreckel 00:42, 24 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Friends was a popular sitcom syndicated over the world, seen by roughly a third of a billion people. Systm will be lucky to see 10,000 viewers. This should be regarded as nothing more than an amateur podcast that gets its article deleted every day from this encyclopedia. Nothing differs from the two. And, if you want to combat it, please - shed some intelligence. --Mrmiscellanious 00:59, 24 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Shouldn't The Broken and This Week in Tech be deleted too, if they are amateur videozine/podcasts according to you? All three of these are very popular. 202.173.180.85
Definitely. If someone would put up a VfD, I'd sign it. --Mrmiscellanious 02:41, 24 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Just out of curiousity, what number of viewers would constitute this as encyclopedia-worthy? --Oreckel 05:14, 24 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Systm is not an average radio podcast. It is a professionally-produced series of videos, from some very well-known TV hosts. --taestell 22:47, May 24, 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep - this is huge. If you delete this, might as well delete "television", "electricity" and "internet" while you're at it. --JimXugle 11:14PM EST, May 23rd 2005
Exactly. How about entries on under-performing in ratings TV shows be deleted too? 202.173.180.85 03:18, 24 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete ad/spam. CryptoDerk 04:31, May 24, 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep This is a large videozine and deserves a page here on Wikipedia Salvag 05:12, 24 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, non-notable, sockpuppet parade. Firebug 05:14, 24 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, a videozine with a notable cast, and it seems like the demand for the first episode was fairly high.--Matteh (talk) 09:11, 24 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, This "show" so far hasn't impressed me, and contains some less then truthful content, but such is the power of the internet, and it's no reason to get rid of the wiki page. 24 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep, I just watched it, and its kinda dissapointing, but the next ones should be more promising. In anycase, Wikipedia should be based on the diversoty of content. This is a real topic, and therefore, it should be allowed to exist!--Buickid 11:28, May 24, 2005 (UTC) — (Buickid's 2nd edit.)
  • Delete vanity. It doesn't deserve a Wikipedia article simply because it exists, we need evidence of notability, particularly as it has only existed for one day. sjorford →•← 14:33, 24 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Advertising, sockpuppet invasion. AиDя01DTALK 14:36, May 24, 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete Wikipedia is NOT a web guide, also sockpuppet-supported. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 15:24, May 24, 2005 (UTC)
  • Merge with Kevin Rose, unless people want that one deleted too. Average Earthman 16:08, 24 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. With all due respect, Wikipedia chronicles notable things, it does NOT exist to help things become notable. As for this: "If you delete this, might as well delete "television", "electricity" and "internet" while you're at it. --JimXugle", please attempt to factually show that this webcast will have a similar effect on society as say, television. If you can't do it, don't make ridiculous claims.

-- Scimitar

  • Keep -- As stated above there are already similar entries that are already accepted. More importantly than that, given Kevin Rose's existing fan base and the quality of the show, Systm may very well define how the online TV format should be done. I think it has huge potential of being a very significant topic. In my opinion people come to Wikipedia for information on non-mainstream topics like this if they wanted a standard encyclopedia they have many other choices. -Ferg
    • Saying something has been "already accepted" is a fallacy; everything contributed to Wikipedia is accepted. Regarding "may very well define," "huge potential," etc.: Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. If and when this webcast becomes notable, it might deserve an article. AиDя01DTALK 17:36, May 24, 2005 (UTC)
  • Merge all in Videozine. Attack of the 50 feet sockpuppets. Oh, and I don't think this is notable enough to deserve its own article, but it might be a good idea to merge all the articles about videozines in a Videozine article. Sarg 18:35, 24 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep -- Kevin Rose, a popular TV personality, just left the G4 television network to work full time on this program and The Broken. --taestell 19:09, May 24, 2005 (UTC)
  • Merge with Kevin Rose until it gains the notability to stand on its own. --InShaneee 19:18, 24 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete until it achieves notability. RickK 19:58, May 24, 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Not notable, and supported by a surplus of sockpuppets. --Carnildo 20:06, 24 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. No credible third party references to support notability. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 20:42, 24 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge with Kevin Rose. The reason the show is important is because of Kevin Rose. Until the show gets popular enough to warrant its own article. Best merge it to Kevin's article. --LBMixPro(Speak on it!) 00:41, May 25, 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete, NN. And kill the socks. Radiant_* 08:54, May 25, 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete If it becomes a cultural phenomenon, then we'll talk about including it. Xcali 23:59, 25 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep and expand. Has some notability. JamesBurns 10:49, 27 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Why Delete? If you think this article is unimportant, go look at Hide and Q. I am sure I just offended some of the Star Trek: The Next Generation fans. It is a piece of TV, and a piece of Star Trek. The Systm is part of the internet, and one of the greatest forms of media. if I deleted Hide and Q, surely some Star Trek fans would get mad, but it is just a fraction of the star trek NG episodes. "but it might be a good idea to merge all the articles about videozines in a Videozine article" Why dont I just merge Hide and Q to the Star Trek: The Next Generation article? " Wikipedia's credo is "the free-content encyclopedia that anyone can edit." Shouldn't an encyclopedia contain everything? --Neo123195 10:08 (UTC), 27 May 2005
  • Merge with Kevin Rose, he seems to be the main reason for it's importance at the moment. Falcorian 22:10, May 27, 2005 (UTC)
  • Merge with Kevin Rose (for now). As Falcorian stated, Mr. Rose is the main basis for its popularity. Until it becomes notable on its own, merge it. iKato 05:47, May 28, 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. —Markaci 2005-06-1 T 02:09 Z
  • Delete One episode and hardly any information available on its distribution/popularity. It doesn't deserve an article just because it is a side project of some D-list celebrity, and it doesn't have enough of a cult following (or content for that matter) to write about. Definitely watch for new developments, should this change. -- uberpenguin 02:50, 2005 Jun 1 (UTC)
Merge with Kevin Rose. On second thought, this would be better since it will add more content to that article but still keep the mention of it around so a new article isn't formed until there is enough information available to merit one. -- uberpenguin 02:52, 2005 Jun 1 (UTC)
  • Delete, insignificant. -- Hoary 05:53, 2005 Jun 2 (UTC)
  • Keep -- This is big from Kevin Rose and I think videozines are something that will change media distribution, now that we know the Internet is able to help people get their message across faster. It'll be recreated at some point in the future, so what's the point in deleting this article? This isn't pointless "newb" stuff! People will want to know what Systm is and what the background of it is. Just keep it. ..... added at 01:26, 2005 Jun by 69.230.167.162
  • Delete drini ☎ 01:28, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete a review of the article and the referenced websites reveal them to be a combination of advertising and vanity posting. It's not notable. Tobycat 04:23, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep as notable as The Broken. siafu 20:00, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep definitely worthy of Wikipedia AyrtonSenna
  • Keep. I came to Wikipedia a moment ago specifically to look up Systm, and that's how I saw the VfD. I think that alone — the fact that I expected WP to have something to say about Systm — is reason to keep. For now. --TreyHarris 21:43, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)
This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.
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