Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Valyria
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This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record.
The result of the debate was KEEP.
The votes were 2 delete, 3 keep.
Minor location in George R.R. Martin's epic, A Song of Ice and Fire. Influential in the history of that world, but has not as of yet played a role in the main story itself. Fancruft. Indrian 17:31, Jan 23, 2005 (UTC)
- Keep. Just like all other fictional realms from published literature. --Centauri 23:01, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- So if I made an article called Kayakayanaya and then wrote: "A land in George R.R. Martin's fantasy series, A Song of Ice and Fire, that is far to the east of Westeros known for its fierce women warriors who pierce their nipples," which is the entirety of information that appears on the realm in the entire series (look it up somewhere if you do not believe me), and somebody put it up for deletion you would keep said article which could not be further expanded in any way? I am just trying to gauge where you draw the line. Indrian 23:28, Jan 23, 2005 (UTC)
- Yes. It is not the purpose of an online encyclopedia editor to "draw lines", ie make sweeping personal assumptions about what may be considered "relevant"; we should not be so presumptuous as to assume that things that aren't relevant to us aren't relevant to anyone. --Centauri 09:03, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- Any standard applied to an article is going to be subjective, that is why we have a voting process based on community consensus, to see whose subjective view wins out. There would be little point to the VfD process if the assumption was that we keep everything that is factual or verifiable. There would also be no need to qualify vanity articles or what wikipedia is not. I do not object at all to your keep vote, which is your right as an editor of wikipedia, but to the fiction you attempt to maintain that relevance and subjectivity do not play a part in project decisions. I nominated this for encyclopedic reasons, however, and not for reasons of relevance to me. Do you really think that anyone who is not an obsessive fan of this series would have heard of Kayakayanaya? Indrian 16:20, Jan 25, 2005 (UTC)
- That is precisely my point. Until I stumbled across it on Wikipedia I was not even aware of this author or his work. Now that I am I should reasonably expect to find that Wikipedia is a comprehensive source on his entire oeuvre, at a high level of granularity. In my opinion the only articles that are valid targets for deletion are (1) original research, (2) vanity, (3) complete nonsense and (4) lists of URLs. --Centauri 22:37, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- Well, we will have to agree to disagree then. I respect your viewpoint and wish you happy editing in the future. I will not bother you with anymore lengthly discourse on various VfDs. I hope I have not offended too much, I just like to know where people stand. Indrian 23:18, Jan 25, 2005 (UTC)
- That is precisely my point. Until I stumbled across it on Wikipedia I was not even aware of this author or his work. Now that I am I should reasonably expect to find that Wikipedia is a comprehensive source on his entire oeuvre, at a high level of granularity. In my opinion the only articles that are valid targets for deletion are (1) original research, (2) vanity, (3) complete nonsense and (4) lists of URLs. --Centauri 22:37, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- Any standard applied to an article is going to be subjective, that is why we have a voting process based on community consensus, to see whose subjective view wins out. There would be little point to the VfD process if the assumption was that we keep everything that is factual or verifiable. There would also be no need to qualify vanity articles or what wikipedia is not. I do not object at all to your keep vote, which is your right as an editor of wikipedia, but to the fiction you attempt to maintain that relevance and subjectivity do not play a part in project decisions. I nominated this for encyclopedic reasons, however, and not for reasons of relevance to me. Do you really think that anyone who is not an obsessive fan of this series would have heard of Kayakayanaya? Indrian 16:20, Jan 25, 2005 (UTC)
- It's impossible to really draw any lines when precedents have already been set on fictional characters and locations. Megan1967 02:16, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- Yes. It is not the purpose of an online encyclopedia editor to "draw lines", ie make sweeping personal assumptions about what may be considered "relevant"; we should not be so presumptuous as to assume that things that aren't relevant to us aren't relevant to anyone. --Centauri 09:03, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- So if I made an article called Kayakayanaya and then wrote: "A land in George R.R. Martin's fantasy series, A Song of Ice and Fire, that is far to the east of Westeros known for its fierce women warriors who pierce their nipples," which is the entirety of information that appears on the realm in the entire series (look it up somewhere if you do not believe me), and somebody put it up for deletion you would keep said article which could not be further expanded in any way? I am just trying to gauge where you draw the line. Indrian 23:28, Jan 23, 2005 (UTC)
- Weak Keep, as per my comments above. Megan1967 02:16, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- Delete as it is not significant separate from the book. Fictional locations have to be exceptionally notable to be worth having separate articles. The level of relevance is easily determined by how much information is possible - if a location only has a brief mention, then you can't add more information because it simply does not exist. As for the precedent - if a precedent is silly, throw it out. If Wikipedia uses a rule that fictional locations merely have to be mentioned once in passing to get an article, but scientists need to win the Nobel Prize, Wikipedia is going to be laughed at as a serious source. Average Earthman 13:46, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- Comment. Someone has created a List of places in A Song of Ice and Fire. Perhaps that should be fleshed out into an article and renamed Places in A Song of Ice and Fire if the actual article for A Song of Ice and Fire is getting too large. There seems to be a very ambitious project afoot to create pages for apparently every location and character in the epic; I'm a bit concerned that many of the entries don't have potential to be more than stubs. --TenOfAllTrades 20:07, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- Keep. Fine as a stub and perfectly consistent with global policy and precedent on fictional concordances within Wikipedia. Jgm 03:05, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)
This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.