Talk:Nellie Bly

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 19 January 2021 and 7 May 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Clairemariarose.

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

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Untitled

I moved the article to Nellie Bly per Wikipedia:Naming conventions, as this is by far how she is most commonly known.--Pharos 20:27, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Record for circumnavigation

I was not prepared to delete quotations; however the citation is not referenced, and is contradicted by information both on Wikipedia itself (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Francis_Train) and several independent sites (such as http://www.wingnet.org/rtw/rtw001o.htm).vdhbghabfhqehcvnd15r43fq2112fcg!@#$%^&*)!!!

George Francis Train is reported to have completed his second "...round-the-world trip in 1890. Departing from Tacoma, Washington on March 18, 1890, he returned there on May 24, 1890 making the circumnavigation in 76 days 12 hours and 3 minutes. He repeated this round-the-world trip again in 1892, setting a 60 day record." (http://www.wingnet.org/rtw/rtw001o.htm)

If these references are correct, Nellie Bly cannot have held the record for more than a few months (she completed her flight in January, and Train his, of 67 days, in May of Cinco de Mayo ).

I am somewhat hesitant to edit the Nellie Bly page as, despite numerous independent references agreeing on the dates and times for Train's three round-the-world trips, (a) the citation may be drawn from an incorrect source, but worthy of citing (if only a reference had been provided) and (b) I am no more satisfied with the veracity of the sources detailing Train's trip times, than the Wikipedia article claiming Bly was the record-holder until 1929. Mark Aird— Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.10.231.229 (talk) 05:21, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

• I think it seems likely that the bit about the record standing till 1929 is just incorrect. The site you referenced gives not just one but a list of several successive record-breakers in the interim, which makes sense. I think I'll fix the text so it's in accord with these facts.--Pharos 06:33, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Remarkable translation effort

This article has been translated into nine different languages since the end of November– I wonder if there is some sort of cordinated effort ongoing. Or is it just that seeing an interwiki in the edit summary has just prompted wave after wave of multilingual editors to their best efforts? Anyone, kudos to you all.--Pharos 12:14, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

This would be the Meta translation of the week doing its job. This article didn't get quite as many as the average amount per week tho, --Wonderfool 01:26, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Inconsistencies in George Francis Train info

The discussion page says Train broke Bly's record by going around the world in 67 days; the article says he did it in 62 days. Which is right? Also, if you click on the link to George Francis Train, there appears to be some problems with that article, as it says he did the trip in 1880, not 1890. There is also a circular chain of events that seems confusing: Nellie Bly was trying to beat the time suggested by Jules Verne in his book, "Around the World in 80 days." Then Train broke Bly's record, yet the George Francis Train page says that after his trip, he became the inspiration for Phileas Fogg, Verne's main character. Perhaps some dates or explanation could be added to provide context and clarify this. Thanks! 207.27.152.6 06:29, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Porn search?

Does that link actually go to the park's site. I think I have some adware so I can't really tell. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.231.109.77 (talk • contribs) 03:12, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

This comment presumably refers to a broken external link to the Nellie Bly Amusement Park which had been in the "Later years" section, but which no longer appears in the article. -- ToE 06:09, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Trivia Section?

Is it worth adding a triva section/In Popular culture to mention that in an espisode of "The West Wing" "And It's Surely to Their Credit (2000)" Where the First Lady dedicated a statue to her and then the President then goes on to mention her in a radio address he makes.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Frenzy175 (talk • contribs) 12:03, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

No, that would be trivial. Carl.bunderson (talk) 02:17, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

She is also the inspiration for the story line "Around the world in 8 1/2 days" one of the many books in the popular 'Judy Moody' series for young readers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.113.27.30 (talk) 06:07, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

I'll ask this here, since it seems to fit this topic as well as any: Is there any connection between the actual Nellie Bly and the use of the name in the old song Frankie and Johnny? The song was written around 1900, and Nellie was already rather famous by then. And I'm sure there were lots of people who disapproved of a woman doing some of the things she did. So using her name for the kind of woman who would be brazenly "romancing" another woman's man in public might well be the kind of insult that a rather prim public might approve of. Just always wondered... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.83.52.148 (talk) 21:31, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

• Good question, I don't know. If you look at Frankie and Johnny (song), it suggests the Nellie Bly lyric in the song was added at least by 1912. Of course, Nellie took her psuedonym from the Stephen Foster song "Nelly Bly", which dates to around 1849, so there could have been multiple reasons to co-opt the name, including that it rhymed well!--Milowent • ^hasspoken 22:26, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Especially given the popular currency of the name since Stephen Foster, an offhand mention that might have been inspired by this Nellie Bly is far too trivial to list here. Plazak (talk) 12:51, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

It would also be original research unless there is authority making a reasonable case for it; if we can find some scholarly authority making the case one way or the other, then I would mention it. Otherwise, this talk page is where it stays. But anyone interested in authorship debates of 19th century popular songs might consider checking out the recent bio I did on Thomas Brigham Bishop, that guy was quite a character.--Milowent • ^hasspoken 13:36, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

phrase 'Whoa Nellie'

A number of years ago I read that the phrase 'Whoa Nellie' was created in reference to Nellie Bly. I do not remember where I read this and I have been unable to find out any more information on it.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.229.51.242 (talk) 03:02, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Maybe,maybe not. See Work with KTLA for another possibility. Kaiwhakahaere (talk) 20:45, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Birthplace

Please verify with an official record. She may have been born south of Pittburgh in Allegheny County on Cochran's Mill Rd.Pustelnik (talk) 20:10, 24 December 2010 (UTC).

She was born in Armstrong County. Please see the link. I'm too lazy to fix the entire thing.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.60.122.8 (talk) 04:51, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

You'd need a strong source for a change. Span (talk) 20:51, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Please stop propagating the error that she was born in Allegheny County near South Park (i.e., Library). She wasn't. Look at this link. She is from Cochran's Mills, PA, which is ARMSTRONG COUNTY PENNSYLVANIA. I can't believe you delete things without making a 5 minute Google search to check whether you are actually helping further the collective knowledge or merely replicating a falsehood. http://www.armstrongcounty.com/members.php?b=c&c=11

Here's another citation from an actual book because, again, I'm sure that my efforts to remediate the spread of outright false information will be questioned, Spanglej. http://genealogytrails.com/penn/armstrong/bios/index.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.60.122.8 (talk) 05:29, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

And here's another link with an actual photo of the home in ARMSTRONG COUNTY PENNSYLVANIA, from the Carnegie Museum. Is this "strong" enough? http://www.pittsburghclo.org/files/file/NellieBlyStudentsGuide_v4[1].pdf. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.60.122.8 (talk) 05:33, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Cochran's Mills is not a "suburb" of Pittsburgh. It's a rural area. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.60.122.8 (talk) 04:39, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Since 2003 the US Census has designated all municipalities in Armstrong County as "suburbs" of Pittsburgh and part of the Pittsburgh metropolitan area. ^{Market St.⧏} _{⧐ Diamond Way} 04:03, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Cochran's Mills founded by her father, Michael Cochran, who amply provided for his family by working as a judge and landowner http://www.biography.com/people/nellie-bly-9216680 http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=87793895

Her mother

Did her mother stay at home to raise her or just her step siblings.Owain meurig (talk) 20:55, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

Origin of pen name

The "Early years" section currently states both that Cochrane signed her fiery rebuttal to the editor with the pen name Nellie Bly and that later the editor chose "Nellie Bly", adopted from the title character in the popular song. This seems contradictory, as the latter makes it sound as if that name was the idea of the editor. If the former is accurate, then the editor in choosing "Nellie Bly" simply chose to accept the pen name Cochrane had already chosen. In that case the later sentence should be reworded. -- ToE 06:27, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

I noticed it too. It's a pity that the entire paragraph cites no sources to let us check it. I did a quick Google search and found a different story: NWHM, Nellie Bly Online and About.com all agree she signed her rebuttal under the pseudonym "Lonely Orphan Girl". It was the editor (George Madden) who thought up "Nellie Bly" as her pen name. By the way, there is also no mention at all that the editor initially refused to give her the job because she turned out to be a woman rather than a man (that wouldn't make sense anyway, coming from someone who identifies as a "Girl"). I'll rewrite the section. Greetings, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 12:13, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

in film Adventures of Ociee Nash

Nellie Bly appeared in a scene in the 2003 children's film The Adventures of Ociee Nash, played by Donna Wright. In IMDB the character's name is given as Nelly Bly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.196.0.211 (talk) 13:40, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

Brittany Christianson?

"The editor, George Madden, was impressed with her passion and ran an advertisement asking the author, Brittany Christianson, to identify herself."

The author was Nellie Bly, so where did the name Brittany Christianson come from? --Susurrus (talk) 20:11, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 May 2015

Kindly check her date of birth and year of birth. Thank you

125.236.197.38 (talk) 05:02, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

What is wrong with it? Stickee (talk) 06:00, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 May 2015

2601:7:6280:423:40CC:C112:3695:2E91 (talk) 05:16, 5 May 2015 (UTC) In the section, "Other Recognition", please add that on May 4, 2015, the Google search Engine produced an interactive "Google Doodle" for Nellie Bly. Here is a link where the doodle can be viewed: http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2015/05/what-girls-are-good-for-happy-birthday.html

Done as requested. Aarghdvaark (talk) 09:10, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

Early years

"Her father, Michael Cochran, was a modest laborer and mill worker who married Mary Jane." - I haven't read the article carefully, but I believe this is the first mention of Bly's mother's name. It's odd how she is introduced.

"As she became a teenager she wanted to portray herself as more sophisticated, and so dropped the nickname and changed her surname to Cochrane." - I don't understand how the name change would portray her as more sophisticated. Why is the sentence structured like that? 2602:30A:C0B3:B0C0:D9EC:F0CF:3703:17C5 (talk) 12:13, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

Surname?

"At birth she was named Elizabeth Jane Cochran."

So why does this article state that she later changed her surname to Cochran, if it was already Cochran? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.215.33.194 (talk) 13:17, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

One of the sources cited says "Her independence is further revealed in her addition of an “e” to the family name, making herself “Cochrane,” instead of “Cochran.”" (https://www.nwhm.org/online-exhibits/youngandbrave/bly.html) so she was born with cochran, but maybe this was a legal change so the first line might still make sense, however, perhaps her last name should be update in the info box? Frederika Eilers (talk) 20:43, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

And now it reads "At birth she was named Elizabeth Mary Jane Cochran Seaman." I'll assume this is incorrect and change it.Septimus.stevens (talk) 17:37, 26 November 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 May 2015

161.97.140.59 (talk) 18:55, 5 May 2015 (UTC) jsjgherirhfwerghiwlerhgwuehaglerufhqeufherlfher

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 20:21, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 May 2015

PStefanSchrichte (talk) 10:30, 6 May 2015 (UTC) Please add another bullet to "Dramatic representations" or "Other recognition" saying ...

Lynn Schrichte, wrote and toured in a one-woman show about Nellie Bly entitled “Did You Lie, Nellie Bly?” A link to a Library of Congress video with Lynn Schrichte about the show can be found at http://www.loc.gov/rr/women/schrichte.html (RealPlayer is required to open the video).

PStefanSchrichte (talk) 20:38, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

Not done: The page's protection level and/or your user rights have changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. --I am k6ka ^{Talk to me!} _{See what I have done} 13:56, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 May 2015

Please change "the latter completing the journey in fewer than 36 days." to "the last completing the journey in fewer than 36 days." Although some dictionaries indicate that latter may be used for a list of more than two items, the OED and most others indicate that it should only be used for a list of two items and "last" should be used for longer lists. Tardis4500 (talk) 01:43, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Not done: The page's protection level and/or your user rights have changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. --I am k6ka ^{Talk to me!} _{See what I have done} 13:57, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Other recognition

The Knick's Arielle Goldman as Genevieve Everidge: A Nellie Bly-influenced magazine journalist who infiltrated a sanitarium in order to uncover its poor conditions (Bertie is seen reading her Collier’s article in last week’s episode), https://twitter.com/AtTheKnick/status/657739061386346496 2001:56A:F3D0:1A00:D5A7:1CF6:C398:141F (talk) 06:04, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

Working towards GA status

Hello all -- as a member of WikiProject Women in Green, I'm hoping to improve Nellie Bly to Good Article (GA) status over the next month or two. If you're interested in collaborating with me, please drop me a note and we can chat about it. Alanna the Brave (talk) 14:49, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

 I would love to help improve this article. Are you still interested in working on it? Iamjessklein (talk) 17:49, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

@Iamjessklein: Thanks for the expression of interest! I am indeed still keen on bringing this article up to GA status -- I may have another try this year. If you want to join me in making a plan of action, leave me a note on my talk page and let me know what kind of editing interests/experience you have (or would like to gain experience in). Alanna the Brave (talk) 16:18, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

Blackwell's Island = Roosevelt Island

I added Roosevelt Island in parentheses next to the first Blackwell's Island reference because that it was it is called presently. I just wrote it on the first entry and linked to the page, is that the proper way to mention such things on wiki? Iamjessklein (talk) 21:49, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

It was the New Yorker article that had that info, so I moved the ref to where it belongs. Best wishes, 22:24, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Thanks! Iamjessklein (talk) 12:32, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

Nellie Bly Sculpture

I'd like to mention in the post that a monument in honor of Nellie Bly has been erected on Roosevelt Island, in New York City. Is there a best practice for adding this kind of fact to a person's article page? Iamjessklein (talk) 17:54, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

I'd put that in the existing ==Legacy== section, with that news source.

I wonder whether we could get a picture of the monument for the article. WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:25, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

Great thanks @WhatamIdoing. I can take a photo, but would that make it alright to post it or do I need to get approval from the artist? Iamjessklein (talk) 00:13, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

Usually it's okay in the US, but the answer depends on all sorts of details. See c:Commons:Freedom of panorama. @Colin, is there somebody you'd suggest talking to about questions about this? WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:44, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

There are two questions here. First if you can take and upload a photo right now and if you can't, how to go about getting the right permission. I have a feeling a photo of the sculpture would not be allowed on Commons. See the FoP link above but also m:Wikilegal/Copyright of Images of Memorials in the US. Getting permission or approval is more than just "Can I upload a photo of your sculpture to Wikipedia?", for which the answer would naively usually be yes, without appreciating what that means. Since Wikipedia is a free-content project, not just free-to-read, it means the photo needs to be free of copyright or have a free licence. And I think that would require the sculptor to put their work into the public domain or offer a free licence. The information I've found tends to focus on images, not sculptures, so perhaps it is best to ask at c:Commons:Village pump/Copyright. The alternative option for Wikipedia is to upload under fair use, and I'm not an expert, but I think the article would then have to actually discuss the appearance of the sculpture. Unless the sculpture was hugely notable for its appearance by itself, that's probably a distraction for this article about the person. -- Colin°^Talk 08:52, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

Thanks @Colin, I see your point that it's really two questions. I can go ahead and take a photo but I will go and check on Village Pump. I wonder what constitutes "hugely notable for its appearance" here as the sculpture has an approximately 6ft portrait of Nellie Bly's head. Iamjessklein (talk) 17:53, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

Ha ha, I didn't mean that kind of "hugely"! I see the sculptor has an article: Amanda Matthews. But I can't really think of a valid "fair use" exemption for a photo. -- Colin°^Talk 19:41, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

Ha ha! I did a little more research and discovered that the sculpture is owned by the Roosevelt Island Operating Corporation. So I just sent them an email to see if they could give me a publicity photo and appropriate credit approvals to put up on Commons. They wrote me yes, but also that they need to get it approved internally. So, the wait is still on, but I'm hopeful. Iamjessklein (talk) 23:58, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

Update : I have posted the image to commons and updated the article. Iamjessklein (talk) 00:14, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

Encyclopedic tone

I don’t feel this article has the encyclopedic tone which is required under [point of view], for example use of terms like “record-breaking”, “rejection after rejection” “burdened again”, “it was not an easy task”, “experienced the deplorable conditions firsthand”, etc. Krystal Kalb (talk) 03:22, 27 May 2022 (UTC)